Author Topic: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau  (Read 14097 times)

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Offline milkyspit

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2007, 03:10:07 PM »
I'm not understanding the touted strength. Titanium does not make good mountain bike spokes, at all. They are light and they look cool but they break so easily.


Knot, I am certainly no expert on metallurgy, but it seems to me one must consider the properties of the specific metal. There is no magic alloy that's good at everything. Ti as I understand it is very hard... but hard things, especially in thin wires such as spokes, also tend to be brittle, prone to snapping. Think about flashlight lenses for a moment... polycarbonate is 'shatterproof' but also scratches easily... both properties likely stem from the fact it's a relatively soft material. Tempered glass is very hard and highly scratch resistant, but shatters pretty readily if it impacts a sharp object such as a jagged corner of rock. I suspect Ti is in the same boat... in a flashlight that might not matter because the housing of a flashlight isn't inherently a load-bearing structure... but in a mountain bike spoke this could be a bigger issue.

Anyway, maybe better minds could offer more definitive info on this!

Offline arewethereyetdad

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2007, 06:25:37 PM »
Sounds like a good answer to me, Milky.  Thanks for your input.  :thumbup:

Offline knot

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2007, 06:34:27 PM »
Thanks milkyspit. I assume titanium doesn't come in different grade alloys then - or, as a base will be inherently brittle no matter what.

*edit - will read rain-man's post.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 06:38:17 PM by knot »
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Offline Jurphaas

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 06:58:03 AM »
Well Griff, you obviously were not in the mood to hold back. It reads to me that you have vast knowledge of this topic and you write passionately about it. I get the impression that all this belongs to your daily work. I don' t understand all of it but I like the fact that you take the time to explain and teach. Good job!
Concerning the tooling and the costs of tool life, I can relate. Spyderco offers knives with blades made out of ZDP 189 stainless steel. Compaired to tool steel this steel is so expensive also, because of the short tool life of the tools used to process the steel and/or the blades. The grinding, the drilling, it is all so much more difficult, time consuming and wears down the tools used very fast.
This all adds up to the overall costs. Produces however, an overwhelmingly high quality blade which cuts like hell and is very, very durable.
Thanks Griff, interresting read!
Thanks Reg for starting this post.
Jurphaas. ;-) 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 04:21:04 PM by Jurphaas »
have a bright day!

Offline knot

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 07:39:28 AM »
Well Griff, you obviously were not in the mood to hold back. It reads to me that you have vast knowledge of this topic and you write passionately about it. I get the impression that all this belongs to your daily work. 

I think he forgot to include his source: http://www.hanita.com/hanita_protected/hanita-art3.htm 

It's customary to quote a paragraph from a website then include a source but each word is worth clams over here so some will quote entire pages. I don't think anyone's going to catch up to the leaders of clamdom.   :)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 07:43:58 AM by knot »
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Offline be.irenic

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2007, 08:17:09 AM »
Yikes! My head hurts Griff...
and my wallet is gonna too!

Offline tonyd

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2007, 08:57:11 AM »
As pointed out there are many grades of Ti. Each having a different modulus of elastisity. Spokes for a bike wheel would require much more elastic characteristics then say Grade 5 Ti (6%Al, 4%V) which would be used in high end bike frames. Generally even Ti bikes made with Grade 5 Ti main tubes will use a different alloy for the fork to provide a softer ride-or in the case of mountain bikes a dampened fork. I sure there are Ti spokes which can work well but the cross-section of the spokes is likely some type of oval shape. Actually, the beauty of the Scandium Alloys, and carbon fiber are the designer tweaks that can be added to create strenth in one plane allowing more elastic characteristics in one direction while providing rigidity in the others (remember there are six degrees of freedom thus flexibility in one and rigidity in five would make a great bike spoke)

Offline regentag

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2007, 05:15:02 PM »
Quite right... an excellent overview.

I happen to have a Ti Bicycle with many Titanium components (no, not the spokes).  The frame tubes are double-butted and the alloy itself is selected at time of contsruction to suit the characteristics (weight, riding style) of the rider.  The components (stem, seatpost, bars) all use different Ti aloys to best suit the requirements placed on the specific component.  The forks and spokes are Steel, and this was not a cost saving measure.  Sometimes you just can't beat the real thing.

It all boils down to the the six degrees of freedom.
Six to describe position and momentum along three axes...

Cheers,
///rā'gən·täg

Offline griff

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2007, 06:32:34 PM »
Hey Knot, What was your source for the Bear in the woods??
Well Griff, you obviously were not in the mood to hold back. It reads to me that you have vast knowledge of this topic and you write passionately about it. I get the impression that all this belongs to your daily work. 

I think he forgot to include his source: http://www.hanita.com/hanita_protected/hanita-art3.htm 

It's customary to quote a paragraph from a website then include a source but each word is worth clams over here so some will quote entire pages. I don't think anyone's going to catch up to the leaders of clamdom.   :)
Too many to list!

Offline knot

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2007, 06:41:40 PM »
Hey Knot, What was your source for the Bear in the woods??
Well Griff, you obviously were not in the mood to hold back. It reads to me that you have vast knowledge of this topic and you write passionately about it. I get the impression that all this belongs to your daily work. 

I think he forgot to include his source: http://www.hanita.com/hanita_protected/hanita-art3.htm 

It's customary to quote a paragraph from a website then include a source but each word is worth clams over here so some will quote entire pages. I don't think anyone's going to catch up to the leaders of clamdom.   :)

Images are often used under GPL and they are spread out all over the net making it impossible to credit the author. Literary compositions are usually copyrighted. We can google for images easily and no one really complains (unless it's apple) as there rarely is any credit source available - unless it's an icon, logo, or photographs for sale -  type of artwork. :)

I have 1000's of images stored in my computer and there is no telling where or who they came from. There are 434,000 images for your keyword search for: bear in woods - and only one: bearinwoods.jpg: http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=bearinwoods.jpg&btnG=Search+Images

Come on Devil-Griff!  Admit it!  I see them horns growin' from yer skull. You did it for them clams!!!!   :D   I'm cool with that, I just wanted to "out" the devil because it's a rarity that one gets the chance!  :thumbup:  erm......I'm first in hell still right?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 07:05:25 PM by knot »
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Offline regentag

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Warning: Excessive use of emoticons!
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2007, 09:15:22 PM »
Understand GPL before you abuse it.

Cheers,

« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 10:48:08 PM by regentag »
///rā'gən·täg

Offline knot

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2007, 11:08:23 PM »
Ok, I'm at the first sentence but I'm tired.  :yawn:

GNU General Public License

 
Updated: $Date: 2007/11/08 19:27:58 $

Source:http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 04:46:59 AM by knot »
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Offline regentag

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2007, 11:40:28 PM »
I said understand the GPL, not quote it... but comprehension has never been a requirement here.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume however that you read at least part of it.

And I'll go even further out on that limb and assume that you understood part of what you read.

Do you still believe that the photograph of the bear in the woods might be covered by the GPL?

Cheers,
///rā'gən·täg

EricMack

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2007, 01:28:22 AM »
Thanks for all the clutter...  :rolleye:

Offline knot

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Re: Titanium Cutting Capacity At a Plateau
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2007, 04:50:50 AM »
I said understand the GPL, not quote it... but comprehension has never been a requirement here.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume however that you read at least part of it.

And I'll go even further out on that limb and assume that you understood part of what you read.

Do you still believe that the photograph of the bear in the woods might be covered by the GPL?

Cheers,

Meh, it was me in the bear costume. I had a rough night.

Hey! I cleaned up the clutter

At any rate, I hijacked a beer truck off teh net. You all meet me down by my sig for a cold one on me. I don't drink so I can be designated driver.







 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 04:53:59 AM by knot »
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